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 8.12.2010 at 10:05
 Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
The Renault team has been officially renamed "Lotus-Renault" after Group lotus (that's the car company) bought a stake.
The iconic black and gold livery has also returned
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88616
Quote:
The announcement of Group Lotus' plans for 2011 comes despite Tony Fernandes pushing on with his plans to race as Team Lotus next year - with his outfit now also having Renault engines and set to run in black and gold colours.

Group Lotus CEO Dany Bahar, who has been pushing aggressively for his company's return to motorsport, added: "I can think of no better platform for automotive brand communications than motorsport and F1 is the very pinnacle of open-wheel racing.

"We're well aware that there has been a lot of controversy around the usage of our brand in F1 and I'm delighted to be able to formally clarify our position once and for all: we are Lotus and we are back."

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 16.12.2010 at 15:17
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
Proton own Lotus Cars. The key business Chapman set up (Very near where I live actually :p). They own the name Lotus. Now Fernandes comes in saying he owns the name Team Lotus. So if I set up a team called Megaforce Lotus and base myself in Hornsey, am I real Lotus? Neither have a right and especially not Fernandes.

Chapman set up the racing team first (what is now "Team Lotus").

He set up the car company afterwards (what is now "Group Lotus"), the profits of which were to fund the racing team.

Chapman himself split the two well before he died, and the two have been separate ever since. When the car companies was owned by various manufacturers (Toyota, GM, Bugatti, Proton) none of them owned the racing team. When the racing team went bust in '94 it did not affect the car company, and they and their owners were not liable for any of the racing team's debts.

To say that Proton own Lotus is not the whole story - they own one part of Lotus, David Hunt (and now Tony Fernandes) own the other part. The original part.

Team Lotus was the first. It is the original. That it has been dormant for 16 years us irrelevant, it was still a registered company in it's own right Fernandes has at least as much right as Bahar, if not more so.

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 16.12.2010 at 15:32
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Lotus Engineering was the original part, which was used for road cars mixed with racing. Then 2 years later that Team Lotus was formed. In fact Lotus cars date back to 1948. 6 years before Team Lotus was set up. The racing team was to advertise his road cars. Lotus started F1 competition in 1958 after racing in club and smaller formulae. Single seaters wasn't how they began.

Fernandes is perfectly obliged to call his team Team Lotus. But to compare it to Chapman Lotus is in bad taste. Bahar has more right as he is closer to the Lotus brand than Fernandes is. What's next, Team Lotus planes?

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 16.12.2010 at 20:34
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
Proton own Lotus Cars. The key business Chapman set up (Very near where I live actually :p). They own the name Lotus. Now Fernandes comes in saying he owns the name Team Lotus. So if I set up a team called Megaforce Lotus and base myself in Hornsey, am I real Lotus? Neither have a right and especially not Fernandes.

Don't see how you can say Fernandes is worse that Proton on that basis. They both own something called Lotus (but only one is allowed to be used in F1.)

No, you couldn't call yourself Lotus in F1... you could call yourself Proton though. :crazy:

The difference between the two is that regardless of whether you consider it to be related to Chapman or not, one has already established a team called Lotus and now a company with no previous interest in taking part in F1 before is trying to ride rough shod over that.

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 16.12.2010 at 20:43
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
Fernandes is perfectly obliged to call his team Team Lotus. But to compare it to Chapman Lotus is in bad taste. Bahar has more right as he is closer to the Lotus brand than Fernandes is. What's next, Team Lotus planes?


If Fernandes has the legal right to call his team Lotus having bought the name then Bahar has zero right to call his team Lotus regardless of what his company is called. Whether it is connected to Chapman is as much of an irrelevance as whether McLaren has anything to do with Bruce.

Besides, the Chapman family don't think it's in bad taste!

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 16.12.2010 at 20:45
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Maverick said:
Don't see how you can say Fernandes is worse that Proton on that basis. They both own something called Lotus (but only one is allowed to be used in F1.)

No, you couldn't call yourself Lotus in F1... you could call yourself Proton though. :crazy:

The difference between the two is that regardless of whether you consider it to be related to Chapman or not, one has already established a team called Lotus and now a company with no previous interest in taking part in F1 before is trying to ride rough shod over that.


Surely I could call myself Lotus if I wanted to. It would have to be under a different prefix though as my Megatron Lotus proves :). Fernandes is Air Asia. Why doesn't he keep to that?

Lotus have been riding through some serious financial trouble. Bahar has been trying to ride that over and finally feels they are in a viable position to outlay some money. Proton have saved Lotus. They licensed the Lotus name for Fernandes in 2010 before he decided that calling himself Team Lotus was a better way of conning the fans.

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 16.12.2010 at 20:49
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
Surely I could call myself Lotus if I wanted to.

You couldn't call yourself Lotus and race in F1.
You couldn't call yourself Lotus and make cars.
You couldn't call yourself Lotus and make computer software.

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 16.12.2010 at 20:50
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Maverick said:
If Fernandes has the legal right to call his team Lotus having bought the name then Bahar has zero right to call his team Lotus regardless of what his company is called. Whether it is connected to Chapman is as much of an irrelevance as whether McLaren has anything to do with Bruce.


Apart from the fact the only reason Malaysia F1 was only called Lotus because of Bahar in 2010? Lotus cars and Lotus Engineering (The 2 key Chapman business') are Proton owned. They both have as much right as each other to call their teams Lotus. But in my opinion it is bad for Fernandes to link his team to Chapman's because of his plans to relocate to Malaysia. I just think its a con to the fans the way he links it back to Chapman. At least McLaren haven't completely sold out and have grown steadily (With the help of Ron Dennis, an employee). Its a completely different case. Fernandes is different to Ron Dennis in so many different ways (Mainly intentions)

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 16.12.2010 at 20:58
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
Apart from the fact the only reason Malaysia F1 was only called Lotus because of Bahar in 2010?

That was before Bahar-my landed

kimster said:
They both have as much right as each other to call their teams Lotus.

No. There's a thing called trademarks - and Fernandes owns it, as has previously been ruled on the numerous occasions Lotus Group have tried to argue it before. See the Apple argument.

Do you seriously think you could go into F1 and call your team Ferrari?

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 16.12.2010 at 21:03
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Maverick said:
kimster said:
Apart from the fact the only reason Malaysia F1 was only called Lotus because of Bahar in 2010?

That was before Bahar-my landed

kimster said:
They both have as much right as each other to call their teams Lotus.

No. There's a thing called trademarks - and Fernandes owns it, as has previously been ruled on the numerous occasions Lotus Group have tried to argue it before. See the Apple argument.

Do you seriously think you could go into F1 and call your team Ferrari?


Bahar joined Lotus as CEO in 2009.

Well, its a case of who was there first and since Fernandes was using the name Lotus under license from a company called Lotus which is now in F1 I think I know who was there first. Not Mr Air Asia 1 Malaysia F1. The Renault engine deal isn't with Team Lotus, its with that Air Asia bloke.

To be fair to him, he is now having to backpedal a bit
Quote:
"I have never claimed the Team Lotus legacy," he added.

"I never wanted to be Team Lotus. I'd rather that rested with Clive Chapman (son of the late Lotus founder Colin Chapman). I'd rather form a new chapter - bring the Lotus name back to F1, build a team on the traditions of Colin Chapman, but in no way could we say we had anything to do with him."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 296324.stm

Having the Chapman hat in a case sends off rather different messages. He is a bit of a joke.

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 16.12.2010 at 21:09
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Neither team are covering themselves in glory. I'm kinda sick of all this... pity the public can't ask for a 151c complaint to be investigated


  
 
    
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 17.12.2010 at 10:43
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
When that Air Asia dude is in trouble he calls the cavalry. And like any great leader its the media to start a smear campaign on anyone who has had a single bad word to say about him. Anyone who leaps to his defence (again) like that is a bigger joke than Mr Asia Air.

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 22.12.2010 at 15:56
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Adam Cooper is reporting that:
Quote:
Renault F1 Team Limited has now formally become Lotus Renault GP Limited in the eyes of the UK government

...which presumably means they have changed their name with Companies House

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 23.12.2010 at 18:52
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Maverick said:
Besides, the Chapman family don't think it's in bad taste!


I beg to differ

http://formulaone.blogs.nytimes.com/201 ... ly-speaks/

Fernandes gave assurances that he wouldn't use the Team Lotus name. So he is a liar as well as a sham.

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 23.12.2010 at 19:50
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
kimster said:
So he is a liar as well as a sham.

Not really, he'd established a team carrying the Lotus name and then Proton tried to take it away having let him take all the risks of an F1 enterprise. It was the only route left open to him by Proton. Remember, this year Proton tried to make a copyright claim on the Team Lotus brand before Hunt's counterclaim (and it was Hunt, not Fernandes)

Also, the Chapman family are only allowed to use the Classic Team Lotus brand by the grace of Proton (yes, a rather strange oddity) so they have to tread carefully.

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 23.12.2010 at 20:11
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
So Proton are happy to let out the name. They have been very generous. They have saved the Lotus name from financial difficulty and are willing to put out the brand and heritage. Mr Air Asia the businessman he is sees an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon with as little cost as possible

So, back to the main point. The Chapman's support Group Lotus and one of Air Asia's only claims have vanished.

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 23.12.2010 at 20:12
 Re: Lotus-Renault officially announced
 
Maverick said:
Not really, he'd established a team carrying the Lotus name and then Proton tried to take it away


Yes they took something away that was already their's in the first place :worry:

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